I'll start 의해 saying that I was enjoying the 토론 that the following 벽 generated. Things turned ugly pretty quick though.
Anyway, for those of 당신 who may have missed the continued conversation, I have it all recorded here. I have removed the names of everyone except myself, but have given people codenames, so that y'all can follow the "debate"...
Orginal 벽 post 의해 SOULSAVER:
Its better to live your life as if their is a God, and die to find out their isn't, than to live your life as if their isnt a God, and die to find out their is...because then it would be too late....
ATHEISTCAT:
If your God would rather we believe in him because it's the safe, risk-free thing to do, not because we honestly believe, he's not a God I want to 제출하기 to.
MISANTHROPE86:
If I find out that there is a god when I die, what difference will it make?
ATHEISTCAT:
Apparently we go to hell?
MISANTHROPE86:
Lets pretend though, that there are 2 of me. One me lives in a universe in which I am an Atheist, the other me lives in a universe in which I believe in God. Lets say that over my lifetime(s), I do a number of good things and a number of bad things. Overall, it turns out that both me's have lead equally good lives and both me's qualify for entry into heaven. Does God reject Atheist parallel universe me, even if I have been just as good as Religious parallel universe me? What if Atheist parallel universe me actually scored 더 많이 good person points than the Religious parallel universe me? Still rejected from heaven? Would God rather take in bad Christians than good Atheists? That would mean that religion and heaven are not about being good people while here on earth, but rather religion is about following religion in order to gain entry to an exclusive club in a theoretical afterlife.
According to your wall-post here SOULSAVER, religion isn't about living this life as well as 당신 can in order to be a good person, but rather that we should all live in fear of a hypothetical force that may grant us a kick-ass afterlife if we sacrifice enough of our conviction, free-thinking and 사랑 to "Him". Sorry, but your argument here does nothing but further convince me that religion of any kind is not for me.
SOULSAVER:
Good points. But the thing 당신 athiests never see, is that there is NOTHING WRONG WITH OUR RELIGION. What is so bad about it? Even if u chose to belive that he dosent exist, 기독교 still teaches good morals. It is still an ideal way of living. But the thing is....what if. Even i doubt, yet there is always that what if factor. If there is, then 당신 people are doomed. God dosen't want to send 당신 to hell, but no sin can enter Heaven. He gave 당신 life! Isnt that enough reason to 사랑 him? Besides, 당신 have to say that something started creation. There had to be something there. There is still something there. God. The human race could not have gotten as far as it did without some kind of guidence, whether 당신 recognise it 또는 not. But the thing is, i never came here to argue, i just wanted to make 당신 think a little. Atheism will get 당신 no where in the end....just have a lil think about this, k? thats all i ever wanted :)
ATHIESTCAT:
Did we SAY there was something wrong with your religion? I don't believe he gave me life, I don't believe he exts, I don't believe he started creation. I believe in evolution. Do 당신 know how insulting you're being. What if I walked into the 기독교 spot and went "Kay guys, you're all wrong, God doesn't exist, believing gets 당신 nowhere, creationism is a lie, I just want to make 당신 think about how wrong 당신 are. That's all I want" Don't be such a dickwad.
SOULSAVER:
Insulting. What am I insulting? Disbelief. If I'm a lil kid, and i think Santa is real, and ur some adult who dosent think that , and I say, but who delivers the presents? Is that insulting you? No, it isnt. Calm down. I never wanted to start an argument, i was just saying that it is worth considering the fact that it could exist....take a chill pill bro.
MISANTHROPE86:
"He gave 당신 life! Isnt that enough reason to 사랑 him?" - 'He' doesn't exist, according to my worldview.
"Atheism will get 당신 no where in the end." - Neither will believing in God, according to my worldview. See the pattern here? It is all very well to get us to think (by your definition of thinking), but we require the same of you. Telling an Atheist that god might exist so believe in him on the off-chance he does is not going to make an Atheist change their mind. Many of us have already considered the possibility that a god exists and, for various reasons, we then rejected that belief. I am not going to hell because I do not believe that hell exists. And if it does, and I go to hell for merely not believing in a god, then that god is a hypocrite and I'll be damned if I'm gonna worship a hypocrite (har har har!).
Are 당신 equating the Christian God to Santa? Please say that 당신 are because that would make my day.
Can I ask 당신 this: why did 당신 choose the religion that 당신 believe in? Why not some other religion? What makes 당신 so 더 많이 right about your religion than other people are about theirs? Shouldn't we all believe in every religion, since 당신 think we should believe just to cover our asses? Why is YOUR god the one god that we should believe in in order to save our poor, damned souls?
I don't think anyone said anything about your religion being bad. I don't even know what your religion is. I personally do not think that all religion is bad. I don't think all religious people are bad. But neither are Atheists. Atheism is not bad and neither are the Atheists who choose Atheism.
ATHEISTCAT:
Bahaha "God, is that you?" "Sorry kid...I don't exist either..." You're being insulting because you're telling us that we're wrong without giving us reasons that we believe. WE DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD. DO 당신 UNDERSTAND?
Ooooh just reread one of your posts. "Christianity teaches good morals. it's an ideal way of living". 저기요 저기요 hey, didja know that 당신 can be a good person...WITHOUT following a religion and WITHOUT being a Christian? *gasp* The very idea!
ATHEISTPANDA:
I find it quitie insulting how 당신 are trying to convert us. We are not trying to convert you. 당신 have not met us, but 당신 are judging us.
ANOTHERSOULSAVER:
STOP BEING STUPID, MEAN, RUDE, BULLIES TO SOULSAVER!!! IF 당신 DON'T CARE SO MUCH, THEN WHY BOTHER EVEN TALKING BACK?! some of 당신 are just the lowest people. *disappears*
ATHEISTCLOUD:
What is with this whole disappear thing? Why would I want to believe in a god that does not want me to think freely!
ATHEISTCAT:
STOP TRYING TO CONVERT US TO YOUR MINDLESS, SLAVISH WAY OF THINKING! IF 당신 WANT US TO SHUT UP THEN LEAVE US THE FUCK ALONE!!! Nonexistance, I hate people like you, and christian to boot!
ATHEISTFRIEND:
Okay, I'm here as ATHEISTCAT's backup. First of all... on the post below, ANOTHERSOULSAVER, I'd 사랑 to talk with you. A point I would like to make at this moment is that ATHEISTCAT is the #1 CAT. She's a Nidan! Better then you, better then Naruto, better then Leonardo the Turtle, and whatever other shinobi are out there. 초 of all, I am a Christian, a very proud one at that, but do these guys come to our spot and tell us that our beliefs are wrong? And guys, stop with the caps lock.
ATHEISTCAT:
BUT TEH CAPS LOC IZ SO FUNNNN?!?!?!!! LOL no. Nidan FTW :P Until I reach Sandan at least.
ATHIESTLUVER:
ANOTHERSOULSAVER, although I am very open-minded, you're a Christian trying to convert us on an Athiest spot. we're not being low at all
MISANTHROPE86:
No one has been rude here except ANOTHERSOULSAVER. I think SOULSAVER's 코멘트 are misguided, but have encouraged debate.
SOULSAVER:
*sigh. Ok, fine. 당신 have proved to me that 당신 are stubborn, and 당신 arent going to change, but i never asked that. Ur the ones who started arguing. When we die, lets see who gets the last laugh...
And he does allow us to think freely. But think to freely, and 당신 will begin to think thoughts that are considered wicked in his eyes. He loves us, he dosen't want to send us to hell. He is our father, if we obey him, he will reward us, disobey and he will punish us (yes, i think its harsh too, but then again, isnt life?). If 당신 truely have faith, God will awnser you. If 당신 pray to him, 당신 will get awnsers. I pray for help with my issues and other peoples issues. I was worried that I wasn't getting anywhere in life because I was a bit scared of trying new things. I prayed to God for help in my life, and that same week there was a assembly at school about trying new things, and being confident. Coincident? Mabey, but that is one hell of a coincident if 당신 ask me. Trust me, if 당신 truly belive and have faith and patience, God will awnser your call. Now can we end this please? I never wanted this argument...
ATHEISTPANDA:
We never wanted it either. and there is nothing wrong with 당신 having faith, my boyfriend, sister and best friend are devote catholics, your faith isn't what upset us, it's just the way 당신 were implying we're going to hell which upset me. I wouldn't tell anyone that! "disobey and he will punish us" "than to live your life as if their isnt a God, and die to find out their is...because then it would be too late...." are 당신 implying we're going to a place we don't even believe in?
ATHEISTDRAGON:
Suppose 당신 live your life as if there were a God and then die and find out 당신 never worshiped him the right way and you're going to hell, 또는 that the true god is Athena and 당신 will be punished for being a heathen, 또는 that there is no god at all and 당신 will vanish into oblivion after wasting your life. It is better to live life to its fullest than to 제출하기 to an abusive deity that probably doesn't exist anyway. Even if God did exist and the right way to worship him is easily knowable, he still has no right to force it on anyone with the punishment of eternal torture. Screw him.
MISANTHROPE86:
당신 tell us that we are stubborn, yet 당신 are the one who came here and told us that our beliefs were wrong and won't accept that any of our arguments have validity because they don't fir your worldview. 당신 can believe what 당신 damn well want to about God and the afterlife and all that stuff, but 당신 can't some here and insult our belief system 의해 telling us that we are wrong and expect that we will just 가입하기 your flock of believers.
당신 can't tell us to believe "just in case we are wrong" and then not expect a 토론 about it. 당신 haven't even addressed any of the points that I made about this issue, and yet 당신 believe that I am the stubborn one? I 사랑 it when religious people come here to talk to us, but not if 당신 believe that 당신 are superior because 당신 사랑 Jesus. Do 당신 go to other clubs for other religions and tell them that that they should believe in your God 또는 they will go to hell? I checked other clubs and I can't see 당신 telling people of other religions to believe in your God. What is it about Atheism that makes 당신 think we require 더 많이 saving than any other group of people? What is it about the God that 당신 chose that is better than any other religion's god? Why are 당신 right?
SOULSAVER:
Because 예수님 came here and confirmed that God is real and that he is our Lord and saviour. Explain to me how a scripture lasted 500 years to then be published and then lasted another 1500 to this day? And it dosent matter what 당신 belive. God will judge all of us in the end. If he belives that 당신 are worthy to go to heaven 당신 will, if 당신 are not then u will go to @#!*% . Simple as that. Dosent matter if u belive 또는 not, because in the end that is our fate. To be chosen. And to serve the Lord.
And f.y.i, i cam across this club and felt sorry for you, so I tried to give 당신 a little something to think about. Im not beliveing out of fear, I want there to be a God. It would be easier to not have one i suppose. But wouldnt it be nice to live in the happiest place in the world for the rest of ur life? Dont u want to live in such a divine place? Think about it. U spend about 80 years on earth. 당신 do good and worship God. Then u proceed to spend an eternity in an awsome place. Seems great dosent it.
God does it because he loves us. He loves everyone. We dont even deserve to go to heaven, because man is flawed. But God is merciful. Now let me ask 당신 a question. Have 당신 ever tried being a Christian? If not, then stop being a hypocrite and leave me alone ok. Fine, dont belive. Just quit trying to be such a smart @#!*% . But please. Have a good long think about this ok. I am sorry if this offended you. I am just trying to introduce to 당신 what could be the greatest and most important desicion u ever make.As for the other religions, at least they have some belief. At least they have faith. They belive in somehting. that is so much better than having no faith in anything. Always remember that God loves you, even I 사랑 you, k, bye :)
MISANTHROPE86:
1) 당신 seriously think someone hasn't suggested 기독교 to me before? I've had numerous experiences with numerous religions. Do not assume that Atheists are ignorant. I came to Atheism because of what I learnt about many religions, not because I'm some dumbshit that wasn't "lucky" enough to have someone cram religion down my throat.
2) God does not exist, so what 당신 believe about him and his buddy 예수님 have no impact upon me at all. 당신 can believe in them all 당신 want, but your belief in them does nothing to convince me that they exist.
3) Heaven does not exist. This life is all we have and I would 사랑 to spend it doing nice, thoughtful, intelligent deeds, rather than spend it being told that I am a bad person just because I don't believe in a mythological god. I don't need your god to know that I am a good person.
SOULSAVER:
So according to 당신 the universe appeared out of its on accord. How do things come to be? People create them. They invent them. God is all there ever was and ever will be. Explain stigmata then. How does that happen hmm?
MISANTHROPE86:
4) Not believing in your god 또는 anyone else's god does not mean that I do not have faith. 당신 have made massive, insulting assumptions here based purely on your own narrow beliefs about Atheism. 당신 are the one who needs to have a think about this stuff. I was on your side here about encouraging some thinking here, but clearly 당신 didn't want debate: 당신 wanted to make it clear to us that we are not worthy of respect because we don't believe in your god.
5) 당신 still haven't answered my questions. Why should I think if 당신 don't have to?
SOULSAVER:
Ok. What do u want me to awnser
MISANTHROPE86:
Now 당신 are telling me how I think the universe was created?! BWAHAHAHAHA! Wow, that is a neat trick... I am not so arrogant to presume to know how the universe was created. I wasn't there. But I do not find it likely that a god created anything. There are any number of other theories that work towards an explanation that are just as valid as your god theory.
People created gods too. Cool huh?
SOULSAVER:
No. God has always been here. Do not 질문 him. And it isnt MY God theory.
MISANTHROPE86:
How does stigmata happen? Um, any number of ways... Disease, injury, psychological distress, faking it...
Here are the main 질문 that I asked: 당신 haven't even addressed any of the points that I made about this issue, and yet 당신 believe that I am the stubborn one? I 사랑 it when religious people come here to talk to us, but not if 당신 believe that 당신 are superior because 당신 사랑 Jesus. Do 당신 go to other clubs for other religions and tell them that that they should believe in your God 또는 they will go to hell? I checked other clubs and I can't see 당신 telling people of other religions to believe in your God. What is it about Atheism that makes 당신 think we require 더 많이 saving than any other group of people? What is it about the God that 당신 chose that is better than any other religion's god? Why are 당신 right?
SOULSAVER:
link http://www.gospel-mysteries.net/stigmata.html
MISANTHROPE86:
And there is no god. I'm not questioning him because there is nothing to question. See how this is working here?
SOULSAVER:
Explain how some people had the wounds appear on Good Friday and then dissapear on Easter morning
MISANTHROPE86:
Did 당신 just link me to WIKIPEDIA?! *cries laughing*
SOULSAVER:
I already gave 당신 some explanations.
I gave u explanations to those things u asked. Ok, so they dissapear do they? And they bleed even though no penetration of the skin has occured? Intresting...i dont think that is self inflction
MISANTHROPE86:
No, 당신 didn't answer those questions. 당신 danced around them.
ATHEISTDRAGON:
Stigmata: link
SOULSAVER:
Ok then. Atheism isnt a belief. It isnt a religeion. It is merely disbelief. Nothing 더 많이 또는 less. Just anti-Christ. As for the other religions, they are simply not what I belive in. 기독교 is my religion. Other people have other relgions. But there is 더 많이 evidence. Like Jesus. Miricles. My mother has seen an angel. I just have an instinct, a feeling. It is unexplainble, yet strong. U think im insulting you? pah! What am i insulting? Nothing, atheism isnt really anything. It isnt a religon, it has no customs. No ceremonies. No officioal leader. U stating that their is no God is insulting to me. I didnt say anything though. Atheism itself is an insult to me. I am done here. ok. I just wanna let 당신 know that God loves you, as do I. I will be deleting this post in about 10 분 to prevent this going any futher.
MISANTHROPE86 (comment not published publically as SOULSAVER had deleted the 벽 post before I could add it):
Atheism is NOT "anti-Christ"! Know what 당신 are talking about before 당신 attack it. If 당신 really believe that your religion is so awesome that non-believers should be converted, then 당신 should really be trying to convert all other religions, not just Atheists. Atheism is NOT simple disbelief in god. If 당신 had taken the time to actually talk to some of us before deciding that 당신 had to save our souls, then 당신 would know that your views about Atheism are wrong. No one here has said that Atheism is a religion. But it is a system of belied about the world. It is just as valid as your religion and if your religion doesn't teach 당신 to respect that, then your religion is something I can never respect.
So that is what transpired. Well, at least it's what I managed to save before the deletion of the 벽 post. I'm pretty sure I got all of it though. It really annoys me when people 삭제 posts like that because then we don't learn anything from them.
Anyway, for those of 당신 who may have missed the continued conversation, I have it all recorded here. I have removed the names of everyone except myself, but have given people codenames, so that y'all can follow the "debate"...
Orginal 벽 post 의해 SOULSAVER:
Its better to live your life as if their is a God, and die to find out their isn't, than to live your life as if their isnt a God, and die to find out their is...because then it would be too late....
ATHEISTCAT:
If your God would rather we believe in him because it's the safe, risk-free thing to do, not because we honestly believe, he's not a God I want to 제출하기 to.
MISANTHROPE86:
If I find out that there is a god when I die, what difference will it make?
ATHEISTCAT:
Apparently we go to hell?
MISANTHROPE86:
Lets pretend though, that there are 2 of me. One me lives in a universe in which I am an Atheist, the other me lives in a universe in which I believe in God. Lets say that over my lifetime(s), I do a number of good things and a number of bad things. Overall, it turns out that both me's have lead equally good lives and both me's qualify for entry into heaven. Does God reject Atheist parallel universe me, even if I have been just as good as Religious parallel universe me? What if Atheist parallel universe me actually scored 더 많이 good person points than the Religious parallel universe me? Still rejected from heaven? Would God rather take in bad Christians than good Atheists? That would mean that religion and heaven are not about being good people while here on earth, but rather religion is about following religion in order to gain entry to an exclusive club in a theoretical afterlife.
According to your wall-post here SOULSAVER, religion isn't about living this life as well as 당신 can in order to be a good person, but rather that we should all live in fear of a hypothetical force that may grant us a kick-ass afterlife if we sacrifice enough of our conviction, free-thinking and 사랑 to "Him". Sorry, but your argument here does nothing but further convince me that religion of any kind is not for me.
SOULSAVER:
Good points. But the thing 당신 athiests never see, is that there is NOTHING WRONG WITH OUR RELIGION. What is so bad about it? Even if u chose to belive that he dosent exist, 기독교 still teaches good morals. It is still an ideal way of living. But the thing is....what if. Even i doubt, yet there is always that what if factor. If there is, then 당신 people are doomed. God dosen't want to send 당신 to hell, but no sin can enter Heaven. He gave 당신 life! Isnt that enough reason to 사랑 him? Besides, 당신 have to say that something started creation. There had to be something there. There is still something there. God. The human race could not have gotten as far as it did without some kind of guidence, whether 당신 recognise it 또는 not. But the thing is, i never came here to argue, i just wanted to make 당신 think a little. Atheism will get 당신 no where in the end....just have a lil think about this, k? thats all i ever wanted :)
ATHIESTCAT:
Did we SAY there was something wrong with your religion? I don't believe he gave me life, I don't believe he exts, I don't believe he started creation. I believe in evolution. Do 당신 know how insulting you're being. What if I walked into the 기독교 spot and went "Kay guys, you're all wrong, God doesn't exist, believing gets 당신 nowhere, creationism is a lie, I just want to make 당신 think about how wrong 당신 are. That's all I want" Don't be such a dickwad.
SOULSAVER:
Insulting. What am I insulting? Disbelief. If I'm a lil kid, and i think Santa is real, and ur some adult who dosent think that , and I say, but who delivers the presents? Is that insulting you? No, it isnt. Calm down. I never wanted to start an argument, i was just saying that it is worth considering the fact that it could exist....take a chill pill bro.
MISANTHROPE86:
"He gave 당신 life! Isnt that enough reason to 사랑 him?" - 'He' doesn't exist, according to my worldview.
"Atheism will get 당신 no where in the end." - Neither will believing in God, according to my worldview. See the pattern here? It is all very well to get us to think (by your definition of thinking), but we require the same of you. Telling an Atheist that god might exist so believe in him on the off-chance he does is not going to make an Atheist change their mind. Many of us have already considered the possibility that a god exists and, for various reasons, we then rejected that belief. I am not going to hell because I do not believe that hell exists. And if it does, and I go to hell for merely not believing in a god, then that god is a hypocrite and I'll be damned if I'm gonna worship a hypocrite (har har har!).
Are 당신 equating the Christian God to Santa? Please say that 당신 are because that would make my day.
Can I ask 당신 this: why did 당신 choose the religion that 당신 believe in? Why not some other religion? What makes 당신 so 더 많이 right about your religion than other people are about theirs? Shouldn't we all believe in every religion, since 당신 think we should believe just to cover our asses? Why is YOUR god the one god that we should believe in in order to save our poor, damned souls?
I don't think anyone said anything about your religion being bad. I don't even know what your religion is. I personally do not think that all religion is bad. I don't think all religious people are bad. But neither are Atheists. Atheism is not bad and neither are the Atheists who choose Atheism.
ATHEISTCAT:
Bahaha "God, is that you?" "Sorry kid...I don't exist either..." You're being insulting because you're telling us that we're wrong without giving us reasons that we believe. WE DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD. DO 당신 UNDERSTAND?
Ooooh just reread one of your posts. "Christianity teaches good morals. it's an ideal way of living". 저기요 저기요 hey, didja know that 당신 can be a good person...WITHOUT following a religion and WITHOUT being a Christian? *gasp* The very idea!
ATHEISTPANDA:
I find it quitie insulting how 당신 are trying to convert us. We are not trying to convert you. 당신 have not met us, but 당신 are judging us.
ANOTHERSOULSAVER:
STOP BEING STUPID, MEAN, RUDE, BULLIES TO SOULSAVER!!! IF 당신 DON'T CARE SO MUCH, THEN WHY BOTHER EVEN TALKING BACK?! some of 당신 are just the lowest people. *disappears*
ATHEISTCLOUD:
What is with this whole disappear thing? Why would I want to believe in a god that does not want me to think freely!
ATHEISTCAT:
STOP TRYING TO CONVERT US TO YOUR MINDLESS, SLAVISH WAY OF THINKING! IF 당신 WANT US TO SHUT UP THEN LEAVE US THE FUCK ALONE!!! Nonexistance, I hate people like you, and christian to boot!
ATHEISTFRIEND:
Okay, I'm here as ATHEISTCAT's backup. First of all... on the post below, ANOTHERSOULSAVER, I'd 사랑 to talk with you. A point I would like to make at this moment is that ATHEISTCAT is the #1 CAT. She's a Nidan! Better then you, better then Naruto, better then Leonardo the Turtle, and whatever other shinobi are out there. 초 of all, I am a Christian, a very proud one at that, but do these guys come to our spot and tell us that our beliefs are wrong? And guys, stop with the caps lock.
ATHEISTCAT:
BUT TEH CAPS LOC IZ SO FUNNNN?!?!?!!! LOL no. Nidan FTW :P Until I reach Sandan at least.
ATHIESTLUVER:
ANOTHERSOULSAVER, although I am very open-minded, you're a Christian trying to convert us on an Athiest spot. we're not being low at all
MISANTHROPE86:
No one has been rude here except ANOTHERSOULSAVER. I think SOULSAVER's 코멘트 are misguided, but have encouraged debate.
SOULSAVER:
*sigh. Ok, fine. 당신 have proved to me that 당신 are stubborn, and 당신 arent going to change, but i never asked that. Ur the ones who started arguing. When we die, lets see who gets the last laugh...
And he does allow us to think freely. But think to freely, and 당신 will begin to think thoughts that are considered wicked in his eyes. He loves us, he dosen't want to send us to hell. He is our father, if we obey him, he will reward us, disobey and he will punish us (yes, i think its harsh too, but then again, isnt life?). If 당신 truely have faith, God will awnser you. If 당신 pray to him, 당신 will get awnsers. I pray for help with my issues and other peoples issues. I was worried that I wasn't getting anywhere in life because I was a bit scared of trying new things. I prayed to God for help in my life, and that same week there was a assembly at school about trying new things, and being confident. Coincident? Mabey, but that is one hell of a coincident if 당신 ask me. Trust me, if 당신 truly belive and have faith and patience, God will awnser your call. Now can we end this please? I never wanted this argument...
ATHEISTPANDA:
We never wanted it either. and there is nothing wrong with 당신 having faith, my boyfriend, sister and best friend are devote catholics, your faith isn't what upset us, it's just the way 당신 were implying we're going to hell which upset me. I wouldn't tell anyone that! "disobey and he will punish us" "than to live your life as if their isnt a God, and die to find out their is...because then it would be too late...." are 당신 implying we're going to a place we don't even believe in?
ATHEISTDRAGON:
Suppose 당신 live your life as if there were a God and then die and find out 당신 never worshiped him the right way and you're going to hell, 또는 that the true god is Athena and 당신 will be punished for being a heathen, 또는 that there is no god at all and 당신 will vanish into oblivion after wasting your life. It is better to live life to its fullest than to 제출하기 to an abusive deity that probably doesn't exist anyway. Even if God did exist and the right way to worship him is easily knowable, he still has no right to force it on anyone with the punishment of eternal torture. Screw him.
MISANTHROPE86:
당신 tell us that we are stubborn, yet 당신 are the one who came here and told us that our beliefs were wrong and won't accept that any of our arguments have validity because they don't fir your worldview. 당신 can believe what 당신 damn well want to about God and the afterlife and all that stuff, but 당신 can't some here and insult our belief system 의해 telling us that we are wrong and expect that we will just 가입하기 your flock of believers.
당신 can't tell us to believe "just in case we are wrong" and then not expect a 토론 about it. 당신 haven't even addressed any of the points that I made about this issue, and yet 당신 believe that I am the stubborn one? I 사랑 it when religious people come here to talk to us, but not if 당신 believe that 당신 are superior because 당신 사랑 Jesus. Do 당신 go to other clubs for other religions and tell them that that they should believe in your God 또는 they will go to hell? I checked other clubs and I can't see 당신 telling people of other religions to believe in your God. What is it about Atheism that makes 당신 think we require 더 많이 saving than any other group of people? What is it about the God that 당신 chose that is better than any other religion's god? Why are 당신 right?
SOULSAVER:
Because 예수님 came here and confirmed that God is real and that he is our Lord and saviour. Explain to me how a scripture lasted 500 years to then be published and then lasted another 1500 to this day? And it dosent matter what 당신 belive. God will judge all of us in the end. If he belives that 당신 are worthy to go to heaven 당신 will, if 당신 are not then u will go to @#!*% . Simple as that. Dosent matter if u belive 또는 not, because in the end that is our fate. To be chosen. And to serve the Lord.
And f.y.i, i cam across this club and felt sorry for you, so I tried to give 당신 a little something to think about. Im not beliveing out of fear, I want there to be a God. It would be easier to not have one i suppose. But wouldnt it be nice to live in the happiest place in the world for the rest of ur life? Dont u want to live in such a divine place? Think about it. U spend about 80 years on earth. 당신 do good and worship God. Then u proceed to spend an eternity in an awsome place. Seems great dosent it.
God does it because he loves us. He loves everyone. We dont even deserve to go to heaven, because man is flawed. But God is merciful. Now let me ask 당신 a question. Have 당신 ever tried being a Christian? If not, then stop being a hypocrite and leave me alone ok. Fine, dont belive. Just quit trying to be such a smart @#!*% . But please. Have a good long think about this ok. I am sorry if this offended you. I am just trying to introduce to 당신 what could be the greatest and most important desicion u ever make.As for the other religions, at least they have some belief. At least they have faith. They belive in somehting. that is so much better than having no faith in anything. Always remember that God loves you, even I 사랑 you, k, bye :)
MISANTHROPE86:
1) 당신 seriously think someone hasn't suggested 기독교 to me before? I've had numerous experiences with numerous religions. Do not assume that Atheists are ignorant. I came to Atheism because of what I learnt about many religions, not because I'm some dumbshit that wasn't "lucky" enough to have someone cram religion down my throat.
2) God does not exist, so what 당신 believe about him and his buddy 예수님 have no impact upon me at all. 당신 can believe in them all 당신 want, but your belief in them does nothing to convince me that they exist.
3) Heaven does not exist. This life is all we have and I would 사랑 to spend it doing nice, thoughtful, intelligent deeds, rather than spend it being told that I am a bad person just because I don't believe in a mythological god. I don't need your god to know that I am a good person.
SOULSAVER:
So according to 당신 the universe appeared out of its on accord. How do things come to be? People create them. They invent them. God is all there ever was and ever will be. Explain stigmata then. How does that happen hmm?
MISANTHROPE86:
4) Not believing in your god 또는 anyone else's god does not mean that I do not have faith. 당신 have made massive, insulting assumptions here based purely on your own narrow beliefs about Atheism. 당신 are the one who needs to have a think about this stuff. I was on your side here about encouraging some thinking here, but clearly 당신 didn't want debate: 당신 wanted to make it clear to us that we are not worthy of respect because we don't believe in your god.
5) 당신 still haven't answered my questions. Why should I think if 당신 don't have to?
SOULSAVER:
Ok. What do u want me to awnser
MISANTHROPE86:
Now 당신 are telling me how I think the universe was created?! BWAHAHAHAHA! Wow, that is a neat trick... I am not so arrogant to presume to know how the universe was created. I wasn't there. But I do not find it likely that a god created anything. There are any number of other theories that work towards an explanation that are just as valid as your god theory.
People created gods too. Cool huh?
SOULSAVER:
No. God has always been here. Do not 질문 him. And it isnt MY God theory.
MISANTHROPE86:
How does stigmata happen? Um, any number of ways... Disease, injury, psychological distress, faking it...
Here are the main 질문 that I asked: 당신 haven't even addressed any of the points that I made about this issue, and yet 당신 believe that I am the stubborn one? I 사랑 it when religious people come here to talk to us, but not if 당신 believe that 당신 are superior because 당신 사랑 Jesus. Do 당신 go to other clubs for other religions and tell them that that they should believe in your God 또는 they will go to hell? I checked other clubs and I can't see 당신 telling people of other religions to believe in your God. What is it about Atheism that makes 당신 think we require 더 많이 saving than any other group of people? What is it about the God that 당신 chose that is better than any other religion's god? Why are 당신 right?
SOULSAVER:
link http://www.gospel-mysteries.net/stigmata.html
MISANTHROPE86:
And there is no god. I'm not questioning him because there is nothing to question. See how this is working here?
SOULSAVER:
Explain how some people had the wounds appear on Good Friday and then dissapear on Easter morning
MISANTHROPE86:
Did 당신 just link me to WIKIPEDIA?! *cries laughing*
SOULSAVER:
I already gave 당신 some explanations.
I gave u explanations to those things u asked. Ok, so they dissapear do they? And they bleed even though no penetration of the skin has occured? Intresting...i dont think that is self inflction
MISANTHROPE86:
No, 당신 didn't answer those questions. 당신 danced around them.
ATHEISTDRAGON:
Stigmata: link
SOULSAVER:
Ok then. Atheism isnt a belief. It isnt a religeion. It is merely disbelief. Nothing 더 많이 또는 less. Just anti-Christ. As for the other religions, they are simply not what I belive in. 기독교 is my religion. Other people have other relgions. But there is 더 많이 evidence. Like Jesus. Miricles. My mother has seen an angel. I just have an instinct, a feeling. It is unexplainble, yet strong. U think im insulting you? pah! What am i insulting? Nothing, atheism isnt really anything. It isnt a religon, it has no customs. No ceremonies. No officioal leader. U stating that their is no God is insulting to me. I didnt say anything though. Atheism itself is an insult to me. I am done here. ok. I just wanna let 당신 know that God loves you, as do I. I will be deleting this post in about 10 분 to prevent this going any futher.
MISANTHROPE86 (comment not published publically as SOULSAVER had deleted the 벽 post before I could add it):
Atheism is NOT "anti-Christ"! Know what 당신 are talking about before 당신 attack it. If 당신 really believe that your religion is so awesome that non-believers should be converted, then 당신 should really be trying to convert all other religions, not just Atheists. Atheism is NOT simple disbelief in god. If 당신 had taken the time to actually talk to some of us before deciding that 당신 had to save our souls, then 당신 would know that your views about Atheism are wrong. No one here has said that Atheism is a religion. But it is a system of belied about the world. It is just as valid as your religion and if your religion doesn't teach 당신 to respect that, then your religion is something I can never respect.
So that is what transpired. Well, at least it's what I managed to save before the deletion of the 벽 post. I'm pretty sure I got all of it though. It really annoys me when people 삭제 posts like that because then we don't learn anything from them.
